Has the coach had a break and if so, what did you do?
I'm having one later. I'll just have a couple of weeks off, as all our coaches do. It's good to freshen up. What do you do? Some do some travel … I'll just be around.

Can you manage to get your mind off footy completely?
Yeah, you do. I think with the way football is today, at this end of the season you can. During the season you can't but I think you can [at this time of year]. Most of the things are out of your control now - the draft, players are away on holidays … the draw's coming out.

How's that looking for the Pies?
It doesn't mean anything: the draw's the draw. On first appearance it looks daunting. We're playing the top three sides twice whereas I think the others are only playing each other once, [so] it's a bit of a mystery draw.

So it's shaping as being a bit tougher in 2010?
Well, that's the way it is. A draw's a draw. You can't do much about it except play.

What about your list? Have you got any players that are going to have slower starts to pre-season?
There will be a couple. Nick Maxwell had his knee looked into but he shouldn't be too far away.

Josh Fraser hasn't had an operation but is still recovering from his knee. Young (Luke) Rounds is having his legs done and it'll be some weeks before he gets back, and the same with Tristan Francis. He'll be operated on and won't be really running until late December. But by and large, it's a fairly healthy list.

Will those guys go to Arizona?
Some will, some won't. Blokes who are recovering won't. They'll do their work back here. There's a couple of others, the younger players, who won't go because they need to put weight on and they won't put weight on by going over [to Arizona] on a training camp.

Is it all about 2010 now or do you still take time to reflect on 2009?
No, we're all about 2010. You've got to acknowledge 2009 but we're all about 2010.

Looking at 2009, in the wash-up I guess the ladder was pretty…
Accurate.

Yeah, it was pretty reflective of where you were at this year, wasn't it?
Yeah, except for St Kilda and Geelong [it was accurate]. But with a side that goes 20-2, it just goes to show you how hard it is to win premierships. They (St Kilda) were 20-2 and they still didn't win.

The Saints have now got to butter up. Third and fourth positions, we can just accept it that we had good years to get to third and fourth or we can both work hard to improve. To improve from third and fourth is very difficult. To improve from ninth is hard because you've got to make the eight. To improve from 16th is easy.

To stay in the top four from the previous year is extremely difficult because you're fighting history. History is a bit like gravity. It's constant, it's there, it's always a reminder. We haven't had the same eight ever and the likelihood is we won't.

Is there a significant margin between you and the top two?
I don't think so. History has shown that the sides that win premierships have got a solid defence, the ability to score quickly and have generally got a dominant midfield.

But it's the characteristics of that side … they've had seven or eight pre-seasons. They're big bodies and by sheer nature of getting through to being seven or eight-year players have already doubled the average age of a normal player, which is around about four years, I think.

Where are we? We’re very young but we've got top-end players - (Simon) Prestigiacomo, (Tarkyn) Lockyer, (Shane) O'Bree, (Josh) Fraser, (Leon) Davis, etcetera - who have gone into that phase where now they've got to take over games: must take over games.

Then the next belly of players are Maxwell, (Alan) Didak, (Dane) Swan, Medhurst, Heath Shaw, etcetera. They've got to start to - and Swan has - not only assert themselves but be dominant in all facets of the game. And not only against sides that don't make the eight, but against sides that do make the eight.

So our next phase, of course, is to get as many games into blokes like (Steele) Sidebottom, (Dayne) Beams, (John) McCarthy, (Brent) Macaffer, (Sharrod) Wellingham, (Ben) Reid, (Nathan) Brown, (Chris) Dawes, etcetera. That's the most important thing we do now, is to get as many games into these players as we can because they're all entering into their second, third, fourth pre-season. That then gets us into that phase where you start to fit into the history side of things and you start to say, 'Well, our time could be there if things fall into place'.

Did your younger list tire towards the end of the year?
You could say that but we lost the last game. We won the second-last game. Did we tire? Pendlebury was a massive loss. A massive loss.

We did take Dane Swan in - I'm a preacher of don't take injured players in - but Dane Swan clearly wasn't at his best and hadn’t been for a month, carrying a leg complaint.

And then we lost Josh Fraser, so we effectively lost two midfield players and then put a massive strain on Swan who in turn, because of his injury, was putting pressure onto Beams and Sidebottom. So something gives when you're doing that.

Unfortunately, a couple of senior players who we expect more from didn't perform well and their time now is that they have to deliver in the big games. That's going to be their challenge.

How did you rate your year?
What sort of year did we have? The aim of Nick Maxwell and his crew was to win a premiership … when you're in the eight from the previous year and you start setting goals of making grand finals and winning premierships, you never criticise because that means that they're putting themselves out there. Yep, we missed the aim but it's the effort to get there. If any Collingwood supporters out there didn't have some joy during the year, then they're very, very miserable people.

It almost seems like it was a 'good fourth' too, in that a few blokes didn't have their best years yet you still made a prelim. You must feel there's a lot of upside, given Medhurst was injured all year, Travis Cloke didn’t have his best year, Nathan Brown had his injury worries and didn’t have a great year…
Yeah, but Leigh Brown dropped back and took his position and that's healthy for the side. The challenge for Nathan Brown is to take Leigh Brown's position at centre half-back or full-back and Presti's got to hold his spot.

We don't go in with a set side next year and say, 'Well, there it is, that's our best'. We go in next year saying, 'Well, that's the side that represented us in the preliminary final' but the upside to that is there are going to be players putting massive pressure on these blokes and could very well, with another pre-season, take their role.

There'll obviously be huge development in some of the younger players but if the side that played in the preliminary final is the same side [in round one next year], then I'm not sure if we've moved that much.

The improvement next year is obviously going to come from those second-tier guys. Do players like Swan and Didak have another level to go to?
Didak certainly has. He's got to prove that he can play in the big games on a consistent basis, and so does Davis. I mean, that's their challenge and there's no doubting their challenge because we want players to be able to play against the best sides, and be good footballers against the best sides. And we're going to be challenged next year, because if you look at the draw, we're playing a lot of good sides twice.

You haven't altered your list too much since the end of the season. That seems to say you're pretty comfortable with what you've got.
Or it tells you the draft is not strong.

That does seem to be the view out there.
Well, if your list is OK, don't change it for the sake of changing it. If your list is not strong, weigh up your last player that you're thinking of delisting and compare it to the last player that you're thinking of drafting. I don't think anyone wants to stop anyone fulfilling their dream of being a league footballer, but it is an elite competition. So take out the emotion of it and put in the practicality of it.

The judgment of what you do with your list is judged by the expertise of your recruiting panel in saying, 'Don't cut any more than three of your list, because after that really the player you're cutting is going to be a lot better and you've already gone through the process of training him up'.

So the feedback you're getting from (recruiting manager) Derek Hine is exactly that, that this year's draft is weak compared to other years?
I'm hearing that from all quarters.

Given that your first pick is at No.30?
No, our first pick was 14, and we got a very good player, we think, with that 14.

You were obviously active during trade week, landing one of the big fish. What can Darren Jolly do for Collingwood?
We finished 15th overall in the ruck tap department, and we haven't improved on that in seven or eight years. We just haven't been able to get our hands on it first and yet our clearance rate is very high, and that's a credit to the players that are in there.

This is no whack about the blokes that are rucking, but simply we are rucking against some massively, big players who have got quality. I suppose people reading this article may point the finger at Josh but that's to the contrary, because Josh is a 20 possession-getting player. Very few ruckmen get anywhere near that. Josh can't do it by himself.

We have been delighted with the way Cameron Wood has come on and there's no question he'll get better and better. But we really needed to give Josh and Cameron some really solid back-up and, more importantly, someone who if you're going to trade 14th position, can take over. He's a premiership ruckman … he's competed against the best ruckmen and performed very well. We believe he will give us more offensive clearances.

I guess the questions a lot of Collingwood supporters will be asking is, 'Can Cameron Wood continue to develop with Jolly in the side?' or 'Where does Josh Fraser play?' if the other two are also in the team.
Well Josh might play as a ruck rover. He might play as a half-forward.

So you think all three can play in the one side?
Um, they've got to prove that. There'll be opportunities but that's got to be proven. I'm not a soothsayer that suggests for one moment that the three are going to be all best players in the one side.

What about Luke Ball? Are you still interested and still hopeful of bringing him to the club?
Well, that's up to the recruiting people and the way it works out. I don't get caught up in that. It's too much like a lucky dip, and if you're sitting and waiting at night, trying to work out whether your numbers are going to come up, you're going to be a very, very tired boy. If it works out: good. If it doesn't, you move on.

I saw you down at Etihad Stadium during trade week. Do you get caught up or frustrated in whether deals can be done?
Do I get frustrated? People say football can bring out the best and worst [in people]. Trade week only brings out the worst in people. Unfortunately I've been involved in it from the word go. I've never seen it change. There are too many suspicions, too many undertone whisperings because of the day. Everyone wants a $10 player and only wants to give $5 up.

There is a hint of suggestion, and I've heard it through just the odd article and the odd comment made, that Collingwood are very hard to deal with. I take it this way: every player that comes on the market, [people assume that] Collingwood are interested in. If people choose to listen to the truth and ask, we will say who we are interested in and who we're not interested in. But the unprofessionalism of the journalism these days suggests they want a one-way ticket. They hear this from a manager or they hear it from a player or from a secondary or third source.

(Mark) Nicoski's a classical case. [They said], 'Collingwood were after him and again missed out'. Collingwood were never after him. I think Mark Nicoski is a very good footballer but we've got half-back flankers.

A bit of tall-poppy syndrome do you think, Mick?
I don't know what it is. We're not interested in every player that comes onto the market. Jolly's an exception because we generally take younger players but he's got such a record of being able to stand up that he can give us six or seven years.

The (Brendan) Fevola one, we were asked about Fevola. And then we made an enquiry, 'What's it going to cost?' We'd already given up our first-round pick, so we'd come to the total assumption, which we were correct in doing, that Carlton weren't going to be interested in anything other than our first pick.

We prioritised our first pick for a ruckman. We were totally out of the ballpark then for a Fevola, if indeed we even wanted a Fevola. There was a lot if innuendo, because he speaks to the president (Eddie McGuire) and the president speaks to him that we were after Fevola. It was only if Carlton just wanted to throw him out. Our second pick was going to be for Luke Ball.

We heard recently, from Eddie and the man himself, that Fev wanted to join Collingwood but Carlton wasn't interested in dealing with you guys.
No, well that's not right either. That's not right. I can categorically tell you that's not right, because I've had dinner with (Carlton CEO) Greg Swann in the last week and Greg Swann indicated the exact reasoning why it was going to be difficult. They wanted something for their Coleman Medallist … they got rid of $1.6-odd million from their salary cap, and they picked up two first-round players.

Carlton have every right to suggest that Collingwood could never entertain getting a player like Fevola for a third-round pick, because that's effectively what it would have come down to even if we were interested.

You said trade week brings out the worst in people. Is there a better model?
I think everyone's looking for a better model.

Have you had any thoughts? And what about free agency?
We think about it constantly because we know trade week's such a bad time for all clubs, and it's shocking for players.

Free agency? If we had free agency, my only thing about that would be would we start to get back to what we were in the '60s and '70s where four clubs dominated the competition because they had the money and all the clout? Unfortunately, I've got to say that will take place.

So I think the League, in many respects their hands are tied to make sure that free agency is kept at a very, very long shot. Because as frustrating as it can be for players and clubs, when we eventually get an evenness in the competition - and let's face it, while western Sydney and the Gold Coast are in their current phase it can't be even so the evenness is going to be well beyond my days - it's probably going to be 10 years down the track.

As long as we know that the cheats are put away, and lose their spots or get suspended or whatever the case is, as long as the watchdog keeps a very, very close watch on it.

I fear free agency could develop another two-tiered system.

Why don't you think the salary cap would work with free agency?
I just think there are certain things that can be manipulated. I just think there are too many things that can take place, that will take place, that perhaps do take place, that we don’t want to see.

I feel Adrian Anderson is trying desperately to keep it (the competition) as even as he possibly can and he's going to be hit hard with free agency, maybe because of the (Luke) Ball situation. And as much as we were a club that wanted anyone to come to us, I feel that his system has all the integrity that you need, because the deal wasn't done at 2pm and neither of us went for the arbitrator. So therefore let it lie.

But with free agency, Jesse Smith walks out of North Melbourne and [for example] goes to Geelong or St Kilda who have finished first or second and strengthens them and weakens North Melbourne. I don't like that system. Even though it's so socialist. I don't like that system where you're going to end up with a two-tiered system which is what we had in the '60s and '70s and perhaps even half the '80s.

So I think he's (Anderson) got to hold firm, and I'm sure it'll sort itself out because this year has been an extraordinary year in player movement. So free agency, in effect, can be almost put on the backburner because of the sheer numbers … that have changed clubs.

I'm at the end of my career, but I want to see this game develop and be the greatest game. The only fear I have is a two-tiered system, which could develop from a free agency factor.

Back to Collingwood: it's a bit of a new-look coaching staff next year, with Brad Scott and Blake Caracella departing. Nathan Buckley, Scott Watters and Max Hudghton have all joined. Is that exciting for you?
Yeah, it is. It's always a bit of an evolution. I've always been a little bit … in the past, people who move sideways I get disappointed in because I don't know why they would want to move sideways. And that was me of 10 years ago. Now, 10 years later on I go, 'No, it's good for both [parties]'. It's good for the person to develop under a different coach, it's good for vacancies to be filled by different people and I think it gives players a refresher.

Mark Neeld will be looking after your midfield group next year. I found that interesting given where Bucks played his footy. Is one job, for example the midfield, considered more important or more senior among the assistants?
No, not really. Mark is the most experienced and look, the only way that they're ever going to become senior coaches is to be able to coach each division. So to hold a coach back in his comfort zone … I could easily give Mark the backline again and again and again and again. He's good at it, and he's comfortable, the players respect him, love him and this sort of stuff. But how does he develop?

Fair enough, I know he is held in high regard. What about you Mick? How stressful was the period where you re-negotiated your contract this year?
It was unnecessary. Others will argue the case it wasn't.

I had several delegations of players come in from time to time and basically ask, 'When's it going to be settled?' and 'What's going to happen?' because they felt [it was] a distraction. And that was the first and foremost thing in my mind, that no matter how long the club was going to take on this, (football manager) Geoff Walsh and myself made sure that it had minimal effect on the playing group because we couldn't afford it to have an effect when it had little to nothing to do with them.

And we had to make sure that was the case. It's not something that they could move, they could change or whatever. It was so important that they stay focused on their game.

Was it a distraction for you at all?
A distraction for my family, certainly. Me personally? (shaking head) You're always on … whether you sign a five-year contract or a five-day contract, history has shown that contracts can and will always be broken. I live on a day-to-day basis and what turns out tomorrow, turns out. I don't get bitter on it, I don't get disappointed on it, I just live on it. That next day, you wake up and you haven't had a phone call, you're coaching.

Do you feel you’re coaching as well as ever?
Well, I think I am. Is Bart Cummings training as well as ever, at 82? There was a suggestion by some people that at 55 I was too old. I think Alex Ferguson is coaching, by his own admission, probably better than ever.

What do you love most about coaching?
It's the development of young men, coming through, seeing them play their first game and then going on and becoming whatever they're going to be - two-game players, 200-game players, somewhere in between and just seeing them develop as young men.

But getting back to the actual cut and thrust of it … that is match day. Just the unpredictability of the game, the unknown in front of you, the expectations, the adrenalin rush when things are happening and you've got to make quick decisions. The isolation in many respects of a senior coach on match day, because as much as you're surrounded by coaches you're totally isolated - because win and it's collective, lose and it's singular. And that's the first thing you've got to accept. That's the first thing I say to these young coaches going out is expect that.

Does each year that you don't achieve the ultimate make you even hungrier?
Well, the ultimate is what? Is the ultimate a premiership? I wouldn't have thought St Kilda had a disappointing year. I wouldn't have thought St Kilda had a disappointing year by any stretch of the imagination. I would have thought St Kilda had a sensational year, but we'll look down and we'll see Geelong's premiership and it won't change. We'll look down next year and it'll still be there: Geelong.

It's obviously tough to win a premiership, but it's only going to get tougher during the expansion period. How paramount is it then to have the club's list in good shape in the coming years?
Yeah, well Derek Hine has been outstanding and I think this is testament to him that in the last four years we've been able to make the finals on the back of losing so many experienced players. And now we don't say, 'No Buckley, no Collingwood'. We don't say that. We just say, 'We'll have a look and someone will step up'. [This year] Beams stepped up, Sidebottom came in late and played some terrific finals football, Jaxson Barham was a NAB Rising Star [nominee].

We had a second side (the VFL team), that was in its second year of its own development, play off in a preliminary final and lost to the eventual premiers, and that side included blokes like McCarthy, Brown, Dawes, Reid, who I think will all make massive contributions to our side and they're basically all 19, 20.

Heading towards 2010, are you as confident or perhaps even more confident of achieving success than in the past?
Well, you take one step at a time and one thing I've learnt in this game is you do not just assume, like St Kilda at 20-2 - the assumption could well have been they're going to win the premiership. People who understand the game [know] it just doesn't happen like that.

It takes an enormous amount of luck, good strategies, players up and running and then you need all the planets aligned and then you win a premiership. And it only happens for one side and it's not always the one that's the favourite.